Chaos List Concepts

So, with the latest releases, CSM ideas and concepts have been jumping around at me.

Chaos Space Marines - Pure (CSM)
Black Legion - BL
Crimson Slaughter - CS
Belakor
Cypher
Helbrutes
Daemons (who oddly enough have no supplements, or even people asking for 'more', interesting that...)

So a few things have been jumping out at me conceptually lately, but to start these are the things that to me, jump out in each grouping. Add more!

Note: All the supplements can use the special characters from CSM so far.

CSM
Axe Juggerlord - Most 'choppy' of our Chaos Lord options outside Special Characters. Either put him on a bike, or Juggernought. I prefer the juggernaught for thematic reasons, but if you put him on a bike, make sure hes riding with bikes, and if a jugger put him spawn for cover save purposes.

Mace Prince - Smash face, best as Nurgle or Tzeentch. Khorne or Slaanesh are best done out of Daemons.

Troops are best as cultists, plague marines, or noise marines, but I still like CSM, Extra Weapons, Flamers in a Rhino for close up support.

The biggest detriment we have is that only the Primary detachment can unlock cult troops! Ally's therefore mean Cultists, or standard CSM.

Heldrakes are still amazing.

Maulers are still amazing.

Daemon

BL Pure

CS Pure

Belakor!

Cypher

Helbrutes
The newest dataslate gives Helbrutes just enough of a push to make for some interesting ideas.

Mayhem - 3, All MM/Fist. 300 points to drop some crazy dreads down in your opponents face likely turn 2.

Helcult - I'd bring this out if I had an extra couple hundred points as it hits 2 things. Fire support + back field scoring that wont go anywhere!

Brute with AC/ML - 115 points
2 x 10 Cultists - 100 points

I like that a ton actually for Daemon Ally's as well.

Murderpack to me would have to be in a large game, I'm not liking dropping 500 minimum on a unit that cant score. :p

Daemon/CSM

Daemon/CS


A few quick concepts as I have to do some painting.

Daemon/CSM
Dp x 2 HQ
Elite or Fast Attack blob
Plague Bearer x 2 troops

Belakor
Cultist
Heldrake or Spawn
Forge Fiend, or Mauler

Helcult!

-------
CSM/Daemon
Juggerlord

Belakor

Berzerkers + LR!
Cultists x 2

Drake x 2
Spawn

Herald on Jugger

Plague x 2

Hounds

--------

Black Legion/CS - Mech Heavy

Lord, MoS, Spineshiver, Skull of Kerngar, Boobsnake

6 x 5 Chosen, Rhino, Havoc, 2 Plasma, AC.

Heldrake x 2
Mauler x 2

CS Sorcerer + Div Relic, Bike

Possessed, MoS! Outflank.

Bikers

Mayhem pack!
Helcult!

-----

Daemon Prince - 145
Khorne - 15
Greater - 20
Greater - 20
Wings - 40
- 240

Daemon Prince - 145
Khorne - 15
Greater - 20
Exalted - 30
Armour - 20
Wings - 40
- 270

6 Bloodcrushers - 270
Hunter - 5
Lesser - 10
- 285

Bloodletters x 2 = 200

The points are totally unknown but the army ideas are fun. :]

This post will be something I return to a bunch and fill out.

First off, a little on what each book brings, that I will then try to break a bit?
CSM: Chaos lord, Sorcerer, Marks, Daemon Weapons, and Codex units (helldrake etc..)
BL: Skull, LMemory.
CS: Great artifacts!
Daemons: Divination, Portal, Speed, Monsters
IG: Fire/Flyer support (Not that I've written any lists with them, but something to consider)
Cypher: ATSKNF, shrowding, 3> Infiltrating Chosen squads

For 1K lists, my last tourney, which went well, I used Huron to get some support (infiltrating rhino) behind the Maulerfiend I was sending up ahead of a Helldrake. For me, the chance to make that forward threat with something that would be a surprise is a great bonus.

So I can confer Infiltrate onto 1-3 Infantry units... Elites or Troops, Raptors, Oblits.... If I confer it to a IC who joins a squad, does he confer Infiltrate? Its seems yes, and then to the dedicated transport... so... could guarntee a LR, or Rhino/Mob with an IC, who could then have EW, 2+ and/or Div with Cypher for shrowded AntiFear.

more later...

Yeah I really like what your doing with Huron actually.

1K is hard, but at our normal level and above I was thinking this today as a template to build off of.

The big thing is getting troops out of our books/supplements that are better than fodder. :p

If taking Crimson Slaughter, at least one HQ should be the Div Sorc.
If taking Black Legion, my troops will be Cults if Primary (NM or PM) as I would likely take a MoS Lord to outflank the Possessed.
If taking Black Legion as Ally, Troop (singular) would be 5 Chosen with an AC
If taking CSM as Primary, its either Jugger Lord + Minimal Cultists, 1 unit of Berzerkers in LR, or a second Lord (Nurgle Biker, Brand) to get a few PM troops.

I want to take a Helcult with Scourge/AC Brute, and 2 Minimal Cults or 1 x 10, 1 x 20 for back field support.

All the Lords would need to be punchy and tough, as I think in terms of killing potential its either DP's (that I happen to kill off early every time) Daemon Weapon lords, or the Brand.

Primary?
Lord
Lord

Cult Troops/Chosen + AC
Cult Troops/Chosen + AC

Heldrake
Heldrake

Forgefiend

Ally
Div Sorc

15 Possessed

Helcult

Lots of Lord options too.

My Favorite HQ Options

Belakor

CSM Primary or Ally
Jugger Lord with Axe
Nurgle Biker with Axe and Brand
Huron, Kharn, or Abaddon
Black Mace Prince or Tzeentch or Nurgle

Black Legion as Primary
Nurge Palanquin Fist, Skull (Tim's mini monster)

Black Legion as Ally
Steed of Slaanesh or Unmarked on a Bike, Spineshiver, Gift of Mutation for offensive potential.

Crimson Slaughter
Div Sorc in whatever format (unmarked, bike, nurgle, its the Divination that matters of course)

Crimson Slaughter as Primary
Stacked Nurgle Lord on Bike (Relentless, Horns, Daemonheart, Sigil)

So, with psy powers nerfed many of my previous lists with 2-4 psykers don't line up with the current warp charge bell curve.

The three/four ideas I'm kicking arround are variations on my fav chaos ICs; Huron, Disc Lord/Sorcerer, Cypher, Palanquin Lord/Sorcerer.
For List content, I have several combos to use Huron/Cypher (Oblits/CSM/Plague Marines/Termies) also the list I took to Kippers last year, which was a tough survival list with a GUcO and cult blob. Another way to go would be to pare down my Gottacon list, and bring an AV13 wall with Decimaor and 2 soul grinders....

So any thoughts on the number of OS units I should have? the drop in points means it will be tough for me to fit the Helldrake in anywhere....

As I threw in at face book, dont disregard the psyker lists.

Huron + MSU CSM + Rhino, + Drake, Battleforged, allied GUO + PB + Grinder?

I have read a lot about how good Invisibility is now in Telepathy, that might buff your cult squad.
And vehicles I think are going to be big again. Especially chaos demon engines that ignore half the pen chart on 2+

The other big thing is Unbound lists and what they might bring to the tournament scene.

I'm still 100% ignoring unbound. :p

Invisibility is super harsh, and Belakor gets it...so he will be in the list.

Huron MSU An exalted gift on the GUcO for a portaglyph means 7+ OS units... this could also be MSU Plague Marines, but would likely loose the oblits and/or helldrake to do it....

Huron
10 melta marines in Dirge rhino
5 marines flame in havoc rhino
5 marines melta in combi-plas rhino
Helldrake
2 oblits MoN
GUcO
10 Plaguebearers
Soulgrinder Phlem MoN


Huron Threat Saturation Inilcheat is totally legit now, so Guaranteed 2 Infiltrating LRs with termies and character, covering Mauler advance...

Huron
Cypher
4 termies MoN, LR dirge
4 termies MoS, LR dirge
cultists
cultists
cultists
Maulerfiend


Pure Daemon version of Gottacon list Light on troops, even with the glyph, but lots of smash.....

Lord of Change
Tzeench Herald
Nurgle Herald
Decimator
Horrors
Plaguebearers
DP Tzeench
Soulgrinder
Soulgrinder

Love the first list, thats easily my favorite.

Yeah I like the first list too. Seems to have a lot of ability to control ground. Plus we all know the nurgle units can soak up a disproportionate amount of fire.

I know a lot are against the unbound list concept, but I was also considering an IW list that's terminator and heavy support based, is that really THAT bad a thing to do?

Hmmm, on your advice, I just played with that first list. a bad play lost me the soulgrider early, and the helldrake was really nerfed, but I still won through mobility: infiltrated 2 rhinos, oblits and DS plaguebearers and GUcO, all went well. mostly was nice to deploy last and go first

I will see what droping the drake will allow for... a third oblit is likely, but I don't have many more CSM models to fill out the squads...

Maulerfiend and oblit
Forgefiend
Some Plague Marines as elites

If you need more bodies and don't mind borrowing, I have plenty of regular marines you could borrow.

This is a list with a concept from a Swedish player: Fill the FOC.... so even at 1500 pts...

Huron

4 termies with combi's
4 termies with combi's

5 CSM, Melta
Rhino
5 CSM, Melta
Rhino
5 CSM, Melta
Rhino, Havoc
Cultists
Cultists
Cultists

Helldrake
5 Raptors, Flamer

Oblit
Oblit
Oblit


It would suffer in KP, but does MSU decently, and gets decent board control.... Going to try this on the table one day.